Dr. Ekta Kumar opened up the webinar by explaining the difference between the interchangeable words; shaming and guilt. Shaming she said is having a judgment on an individual. It can then be hard to make change happen when feeling overwhelmed with this emotion. For example, “I’m terrible at finances,” is a client shaming themselves. Guilt is behavioral and it can be obstructive. An example of this would be saying to a client, “Stop spending so much on shopping.” 

When a client feels shameful, an advisor should respond with empathy, explained Kumar.  Discussing money is something many Americans have been taught not to talk about with others, therefore it is often difficult to talk about with someone you do not know well. The advisor wants to emphasize and encourage a bond that together they can work on a financial plan. The thoughts about financial decisions they feel shameful about must be reminded are a skill and not a character flaw, Dr. Kumar said. 

Managing Non-Verbals

Before COVID-19, meetings with clients mostly took place in-person therefore meaning body language was very easily accessible to see. Now, the majority of meetings are virtual and I think they will be for the foreseeable future meaning different non-verbal actions are needed when in a meeting. Dr. Kumar said advisors need to think about other aspects compared to the previous in-person format when in a meeting with a client. What are your distractions while talking? What is your body language depicting to the receiver through the camera? Are you using eye-contact and visual cues such as nodding? It is important to exaggerate these in a virtual environment so they can be seen through the screen, Dr. Kumar said. 

In relation to the topic of judgment the host, Dr. Chia-Li Chien, asked what can advisors do to avoid and manage their nonverbals? Dr. Kumar responded by saying advisors need to be aware of what their biases are towards certain behaviors or individuals. “As humans every single one of us has biases and when we try to ignore any that exist, we can’t do anything about them,” she said.  Many of us refuse to acknowledge we have biases towards certain identities or characteristics, however, we all have them. Until they are recognized and understood we are oblivious to fixing them. To help understand, Dr. Kumar suggested reflecting on the situation that was tough for you. Are you aware of any biases being present? How are you going to actively work on those biases? The discussion of understanding Dr. Kumar is talking about is so important to understand no matter what industry you are working in. Especially as our world is becoming more global working with cultures literally from all over the world. 

When it comes to being an advisor there are two strong biases at play, the rules of thumbs such as social security claiming age, and cultural biases such as paying for children’s college. “Each individual has different familiar values, different cultural values that drive their decision making, different obligations to their church or their temple, but also mental health as well. Sometimes different mental health diagnoses have different spending habits,” Dr. Kumar said. 

The Best Way to Work with Biases 

There are biases for all types of identity. In Financial Planning it is important to ask questions and understand what is important for the individual you are working with. What are the individual’s values? When they respond, good listening should be practiced to fully grasp what they are saying. Responses should be sensitive and their values should be honored. The best outcome is to meet their financial goals while honoring their values. 

The best way to work around biases is to understand where it came from and how your point of view is different from the clients. Acknowledging their position is a good place to open up a conversation on ways to meet their financial goals. The best way to achieve this is to ask additional questions to find a middle ground of compromise.  

How to Avoid Unintentionally Shaming Clients?

A question that may come across an advisor’s mind is how do you know when a client has been unintentionally shamed? There are a few potential indicators Kumar explained. Maybe your client stops attending sessions, seems checked out or you are hitting a dead end. “You’re talking about money all day but most people never talk about money. Remember those pieces,” Dr. Kumar said. Also pay attention to what your phrases are and how you feel at the end of different sessions.  

Does Being Vulnerable Help to Understand Clients?

Advisors are human too. They understand the challenges and difficulties that the client may be facing in making decisions. By recognizing that different things can be difficult it shows the client that the advisors understand emotional turmoil. By sharing experience it sheds some light on the fact they aren’t the only ones to be struggling with a certain topic or decision. 

How to Get Clients to Talk Without Shaming Them Into Talking? 

The key to getting clients to talk without shaming them into doing so is to be empathic and sensitive to their perspective. Ask questions and brainstorm with them while maintaining a neutral tone, Dr. Kumar said. You also want to monitor your facial expressions while activating listening and engaging she explained. 

Phrasing Questions

The way questions are asked and phrased will change the type of response that is received Kumar explained. “Why don’t you stop getting your nails done every week?” versus “You nails look really great, is it something you do to take care of yourself?… What about if you got them done every week and a half?” Although these two questions are looking for the same answer, they will receive two very different responses from the client. By demonstrating support and recognition of why the client is getting their nails done it opens the conversation to negotiate a middle ground, explained Dr. Kumar. “There are so many layers of identity there is room for judgment,” Dr. Kumar said.   

Discussing Savings 

Some people find it easier to talk about spending rather than saving. So, how do you engage a client to talk about saving? You want to first learn about the clients value of saving, Kumar said. Ask the client, “How important are savings to you?” This is a neutral way to have the conversation rather than pushing the concept of savings onto the client. 

Ease the Situation Into Helping the Clients Do the Right Thing

By acknowledging and giving feedback of the norms it can help ease the situation of helping the client do the right thing. You want to have awareness of potential different situations that can be around savings that you may not know about e.g. fears of banks or previous divorce, Dr. Kumar said. “To speed up the discovery, create a good environment to help the client feel comfortable to share information,” suggested Dr. Kumar in her last thought of the webinar. If they still don’t share information, it may be they just don’t want to share it.  

If you would like to learn more about careers in Financial Planning, reach out to the Financial Planning program here at California Lutheran University. 

About Ekta Kumar:

Dr. Ekta Kumar is a licensed Clinical Psychologist who received her master’s degree and a doctorate in Clinical Psychology (Psy.D.) from the University of Indianapolis. At the University of Indianapolis, Dr. Kumar was a diverse fellow and served on the Diversity Advisory Board for the School of Psychological Sciences.  Dr. Kumar has developed workshops and continuing education programs related to diversity, trauma, clinical practice for students, staff, faculty, and clinicians in Indiana and California. Recently, Dr. Kumar was the Director for Community Counseling Services at CLU and is now the Director of Diversity and Inclusion Initiatives for the Department of Psychiatry at the University of Southern California. She is also an Assistant Professor in the Department of Psychiatry and provides college students at USC with therapy services. In her private practice, she specializes in working with LGBTQIA+ individuals and POC. Dr. Kumar has a variety of training and experience providing therapy, outreach/prevention programming, and facilitation of difficult dialogue related to trauma and diversity. Finally, Dr. Kumar has presented at various national conferences and is published in the Journal of Multicultural Counseling and Development.

About the Host:

Dr. Chia-Li Chien is a succession program director at Value Growth Institute, a succession consulting practice dedicated to helping business owners increase their firms’ equity value. Before her private consulting practice, she held several senior management positions in Fortune 500 companies. Dr. Chien is a director of the financial planning program at the School of Management at California Lutheran University. Dr. Chien is a frequent speaker about succession and retirement planning at national conferences and has published three award-winning books, including her most recent publication, “Enhancing Retirement Success Rates in the United States.” Dr. Chien serves on the boards of various national financial service associations. She holds a doctorate in financial planning and is a Certified Financial Planner (CFP®) as well as Project Management Professional (PMP®).

About the Author:

Rosie Baker is an undergraduate student at California Lutheran University, graduating in May 2021. She is studying Communication with an emphasis in PR and Advertising and has a minor in Creative Writing. In July 2020, she published her first book, Mirrors & Windows: Unlocking a New Framework to Envision Your Success, with New Degree Press. 

Dr. Chien interviewed Dr. Ekta Kumar on “How to Counsel Clients Without Shaming Them?” on November 3, 2020, at 3:00 pm PST.

Many of us were taught not to talk about money when growing up. But, the more we make, the more we need to seek help in accumulating wealth. So we can achieve financial independence in life. In this session, we will discuss the following questions:

• What is shaming?
• How do we know we are unintentionally shaming our clients?
• How do we encourage clients to talk but not shame them when providing financial planning or counseling?
• What could financial planning professionals do to avoid shaming their clients?

Failure scares many of us, if not all of us in some way. Whether it is something big like not achieving our dream job or something small like undercooking a chocolate birthday cake. Carrie Beckstrom, an expert in communicating and the CEO of Power Speaking. Inc discusses how to reframe failure, vital communication soft skills everyone should practice, and how to analyze an audience plus many other topics in her interview with Dr. Chia-Li Chien. 

Beckstrom recommends these three ways to reframe failure: 

1. Focus on your strengths and be clear on what they are.
2. Step outside of your comfort zone as the most rewarding things in your life come from doing just this.
3. Practice, Train, and Research communication techniques, but most importantly commit to them. 

The first minute to two minutes is the most vital when you want to make an impression. If you start weak, it is hard to recover, Beckstrom explained. “If you do nothing else, make sure you have your opening down pat, whether it’s an interview you’re preparing for, a difficult discussion, a pitch to a client, or a presentation. You need to rehearse that opening,” she said. 

The Importance of Communication Skills

Having good communication and other behavioral skills are the new power skills said, Beckstrom. “The number one skill that recruiters, CEOs, and employers are seeking from graduates are referred to as either power or social capital skills,” she said. These skills refer to writing and verbal communication, working with others, and the ability to influence others. Now more than ever there is an emphasis on the importance of having these skills as companies are now global organizations. What’s more, having these skills lead to building strong relationships. 

How to Overcome Excuses 

We are all guilty of having excuses for ourselves, whether it is putting off doing a task or having a reason to not step outside of our comfort zones. Ask yourself, Beckstrom said, “How are your excuses and self-imposing limitations serving you?”

How do the choices are you choosing benefit you? Do you want to stretch yourself out of your comfort zone and reap the rewards from being uncomfortable for a period of time? You can only grow and get these rewards when you take the courage to step outside of your comfort zone she explained. “It doesn’t matter what level you are at, there is always an opportunity for improvement,” she said. Whether you are at entry-level or the CEO, learning, and growing will never cease. 

What Makes an Effective Communicator

If you want to be an effective communicator, you want to show others that you are not perfect. What makes us all human is having weaknesses. “Converting confidence, capabilities, aspirations and to be willing to show vulnerability and weakness that humanizes you and makes you so much more relatable,” Beckstrom said. What’s more, effective communicators always come from an audience perspective, never a speaker. We must be mindful of this especially when hosting a presentation. 

Why You Should Analyse the Audience’s DNA 

An audience’s DNA is Demographics, Needs, and Attitudes. 

Demographics covers roles and responsibilities, knowledge level, technical language understanding, and ethnic or gender considerations. 

Needs asks the questions of: Why should your audience care? What’s in it for them? (WIIFM)

And Attitudes is thinking about the expectations of the audience’s feelings. Will they be advocates or naysayers? 

To find out these answers social media resources can be used, in particular, something like LinkedIn and don’t be afraid of asking to learn more. It is important not to make assumptions about who the audience are. A successful communicator is in the preparation. 

Another thing to keep in mind with the audience is that you want to zero in on the purpose at the beginning to have a greater chance of achieving it by the end. By beginning with the end in mind, you know the goal of what you want to achieve Beckstrom said.  

What Are the Typical Objections

Typical objections often relate to cost and ROI. It is the battle of resources. Therefore, it is important to be mindful of these objections and ask yourself what makes yours rise above the others? Those you are pitching to spend their day being asked and pitched to. You want to rise above and be prepared to know how to handle objections. However, don’t ever fake the answer. Sometimes things come up that you aren’t prepared for and that is okay said, Beckstrom. 

Soft Skills Drive Wage Growth 

“The job roles that accelerated in terms of wages over the past 30 years were those that combined soft skills and the more technical skills,” Beckstrom said. To make your financial career differentiate, couple your expertise with strong soft skills for good communication. In finance, do you want to tell or make the news? By using effective communication, you can give insight into the information rather than just sharing the information. Turn a decision into action she said. 

Beckstrom also mentioned the importance of seeking out mentors that you can use to help. The host, Dr. Chia-Li Chien said to not be afraid to ask someone to be a mentor. Growth and learning will come from them. Furthermore, they can help you expand your network. 

One Recommendation From Carrie Beckstrom

The webinar ended with a final thought from Beckstrom. She said you must commit now to honing this skill of soft skills communication. “It will serve you well regardless of your pursuits and it’s a way to differentiate yourself and give yourself a greater edge and more satisfaction,” she said. 

If you would like to learn more about careers in Financial Planning, reach out to the Financial Planning program here at California Lutheran University. 

About Carrie Beckstrom

Carrie Beckstrom joined PowerSpeaking, Inc. in 2018 after more than 30 years in the learning and development field. Her mission was to help take a company that has positively impacted more than 300,000 people over the past 33 years to new heights in leading-edge communication and presentation skills development.

Prior to joining PowerSpeaking, as ADP’s Vice President, Enterprise Learning, I was honored to lead teams that made Training Magazine’s “Training Top 125” 10 years in a row. Driving those achievements was a vision and passionate sense of direction that said, “Our purpose is to make great people even greater at what they do every day.”
Carrie is passionate about her field because it changes lives, careers, and businesses. Carrie states, “I’ll never tire of seeing people transformed and elevated after learning how to speak their truths, communicate with courage and clarity, and inspire others to move their causes, business, and industry forward.”

About the Host

Dr. Chia-Li Chien is a succession program director at Value Growth Institute, a succession consulting practice dedicated to helping business owners increase their firms’ equity value. Before her private consulting practice, she held several senior management positions in Fortune 500 companies. Dr. Chien is a director of the financial planning program at the School of Management at California Lutheran University. Dr. Chien is a frequent speaker about succession and retirement planning at national conferences and has published three books, including her most recent publication, “Enhancing Retirement Success Rates in the United States.” Dr. Chien serves on the boards of various national financial service associations. She holds a doctorate in financial planning and is a Certified Financial Planner (CFP®) as well as Project Management Professional (PMP®).

About the Author

Rosie Baker is an undergraduate student at California Lutheran University, graduating in May 2021. She is studying Communication with an emphasis in PR and Advertising and has a minor in Creative Writing. In July 2020, she published her first book, Mirrors & Windows: Unlocking a New Framework to Envision Your Success, with New Degree Press. 

Discussion topics will include strategies that enable advisors to communicate in ways that maximize client and company success or reach their goals.

• How do you communicate for success?
• What form of communication is most important when considering goal efficacy?
• How will communications help you grow your practice?

Daralee Barbera started her career as a maths teacher in the day and a college professor at night. Fast forward a few decades later to the present day, and she now has a very different career to the one she started with. For the last 34 years, she has worked in financial services, a profession which you may not expect for someone who spent their working day in the classroom. 

But it is not as uncommon as you may think. Quite a few math teachers later work in financial services, according to Daralee and the host of the webinar, Women in Financial Services, Dr. Chia-Li Chien, as both of these careers, have similar skills. “People who are from education are probably ideal candidates to go in this profession because they probably have the patience,” said Daralee 

Daralee spent the first four years working in financial services as a financial advisor. She spent the remainder of the years working as Managing Principal at Waddell & Reed. Her job was to train, develop, retain, and grow financial advisors and the team. She then retired to work on her doctorate at the University of Southern California. However, at this time, she also went back to work to be the EVP of Business Development and VP of Strategic Initiatives at GAMA International. An organization where members who work in financial services develop their leadership skills. According to their website, they are committed “to providing members with research-based, world-class education, and training resources are second to none.” It is a place where leaders build leadership skills. 

Daralee has also written two books; Women Matter: The Why and How of Gender Diversity in Financial Services and What You Can Do When You Can’t: 21 Days to Personal Success. She is currently in the process of writing her third book, Financial Literacy for Women and the Role of Financial Education: An Exploratory Study of Promising Practices. 

Women are a tiny percentage of financial services, in comparison to men. 20% of those who are Certified Financial Planning are women, which has increased 4% since last year. But, shockingly, only 6% of those with the certification are client-facing. Daralee believes the best way to increase the percentage in the workplace is to recruit and retain women. What’s more, all advisors need and deserve support to help professionals grow and practice management, which Daralee thinks is key to retention. 

Considering women control the majority of wealth, make the majority of financial decisions, and male clients like to have female financial advisors as they tend to listen more and build stronger relationships, there is a considerable gap in the market. It is a gap that it seems not many people or even students know about the opportunities within this field. 

The Financial Planning Program here at California Lutheran University works hard to educate others about the work opportunities and our program. Daralee said the best ways to encourage not only more women, but more diversity into the field is to train, provide experience, and create exposure. Not only these points but to also work within the community. With diverse populations and clients, now is the time to create teams that reflect the communities being served. 

“Money means different things to different people. You can’t just come in analytically and do a financial plan and expect the client to execute and implement it. It’s got to feel right and reflect their values,” said Daralee. 

Financial planning is the heartbeat of business said Dr. Chien, the host of the webinar when interviewing Daralee. It is essential to have good communication and good relationships. This is also a key point when picking a company to work with. Pick a company that feels like the right fit for your culture and fits your values. 

Two parts of the webinar stood out to me to not only remember if you are thinking of working in the financial field, but I think they can apply to other aspects of our lives too. 

The first one is a quote from Daralee’s book, “The clearer you are about your intention, the easier it will be to execute them.” This could be applied to the workplace, such as your advisor, employees, or planners, but it also applies to personal goals. When we are clear about what we want and what we expect, we will receive those results.   

At the end of the webinar, Daralee gave three tips of advice to new professionals starting their career in the financial services industry, which again, I think, can be applied to any industry. The first tip was to “know your why”, the second was “know your industry,” and the third was “stay a student.” In a world where every day something is changing, we must be open to forever being a student and learning new things. When we learn, we, in return, grow as people, and our perspectives broaden. 

If you would like to learn more about careers in finance and being a Financial Advisor, reach out to the Financial Planning program here at California Lutheran University. 

About the Speaker:

Daralee Barbera is a professor, professional business coach, consultant, speaker, and author with a Doctorate in Education from the University of Southern California. She is the EVP of Business Development and VP of Strategic Initiatives at GAMA International. For 34 years she was Managing Principal at Waddell & Reed. Daralee has also written two books; Women Matter: The Why and How of Gender Diversity in Financial Services and What You Can Do When You Can’t: 21 Days to Personal Success. She is currently in the process of writing her third book, Financial Literacy for Women and the Role of Financial Education: An Exploratory Study of Promising Practices. 

About the Host:

Dr. Chia-Li Chien is a succession program director at Value Growth Institute, a succession consulting practice dedicated to helping business owners increase the equity value of their firms. Before her private consulting practice, she held several senior management positions in Fortune 500 companies. Dr. Chien is a director of the financial planning program in the School of Management at California Lutheran University. Dr. Chien is a frequent speaker about succession and retirement planning at national conferences and has published three books, including her most recent publication, “Enhancing Retirement Success Rates in the United States.” Dr. Chien serves on the boards of various national financial service associations. She holds a doctorate in financial planning and is a Certified Financial Planner (CFP®) as well as Project Management Professional (PMP®).

About the Author:

Rosie Baker is an undergraduate student at California Lutheran University expecting to graduate in May 2021. She is studying Communication with an emphasis in PR and Advertising and has a minor in Creative Writing. She is currently writing a book, Mirrors and Windows, which is due to be published this summer with New Degree Press. 

Commission vs. Ethics (Fiduciary?) – Igor Zey

May 16, 2019

12:00 PM – Pacific Time (US and Canada)
Learn more about Cal Lutheran’s Financial Planning Program